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[Music]

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come on guys we don't want to be late

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[Music]

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this is the gospel of the lord i see you

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lord jesus christ

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today's gospel talks about what the lord

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has to give us

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he did so because we could not control

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our temptations

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kind of like a priest in a room full of

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okay okay let's let's try and have none

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of that today

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in john 3 16 the gospel tells us how god

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so loved the world

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he gave to us his only son and a

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okay that's south park talking about

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what it's like to go back to catholic

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church today

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and the connection with today's

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interview with rick delano who has a

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really outstanding new science movie out

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called the end of quantum reality

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about the work of dr wolfgang smith well

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the connection is that even though it's

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a great science film

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with beautiful cinematography i can't

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stop laughing about the catholic thing

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you did a great job of educating us on

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something that we always know

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and that is how solid

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quantum physics is because one of the

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tricks that's been done

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here to get away from the philosophical

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implications of quantum physics

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is to make it sound woo-woo or fluffy

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you just don't get it rick i mean you

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don't understand why

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non-christians like me are just

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stunned how any really bright

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intelligent person that you are can buy

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into

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such a wacky cosmology there is

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no remote point of congruence

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between the straw man on your screen

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and the actual content of christian

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revelation any christian knows that

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instantaneously welcome to skeptico

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where we explore controversial science

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and spirituality

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with leading researchers thinkers and

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their critics

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i'm your host alex sacaris and today we

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welcome

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rick delano to skeptico rick is

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a guy who has a terrific new movie out

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called the end of quantum reality

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it's a movie that explores the work of

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physicist

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dr wolfgang smith and it builds

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a very strong scientific based case

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against the biological robot meaningless

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universe

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meme that we talk about so much on this

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show

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here's a clip from the trailer of the

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movie

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no one understands quantum theory a

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multitude of competing theories have

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been advanced

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which strike the uninitiated as ranging

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from the more or less weird

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to the patently absurd it's not just in

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physics it's in everything everything is

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conspiring

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to what the physicist would call a

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singularity

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where things just break down and they

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can't go on the way they have been going

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on

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it is time to take stock of what has

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befallen us

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time to break the spell

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the world view of classical physics has

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been broken

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irretrievably okay that might be a place

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where we could pause

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rick welcome to skeptico thanks so much

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for joining

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me thank you so much for having me alex

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well i have to say you are one talented

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guy

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i was watching this movie which for

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anyone who saw it

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the clip i was just playing is

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absolutely visually

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fantastic beautifully well done graphics

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animations cinematography i'm watching

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it i'm thinking

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where did they get this guy to narrate

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this film i'm serious i'm serious that

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was my first thought

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and then i looked you were the writer

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director narrator

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i mean you is your baby so

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i was dying to know a little bit about

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your background

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and how you came to do this well it's

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really interesting i

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i am the writer and the narrator and the

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producer my dear

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associate kt thomas is the director

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and uh i sort of fell into this business

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not by choice

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or by uh design but

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a dear friend of mine had decided to

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make a film about the copernican

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principle back in

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about 2010 and while i

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do have extensive experience in the

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music business

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my friend thought that since i was a

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hollywood producer that meant i would

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know something about

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movies no i was a hollywood music

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producer

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knew absolutely nothing about filmmaking

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but one thing led to another and he

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could not find anyone that he really

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trusted to

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make the film and that is how i became a

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film producer with the principal in 2014

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was released in 2014 and the most

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remarkable

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thing happened i mean for about three

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weeks it became

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probably one of the biggest three

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stories in the world

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which is highly unusual for an

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independently produced

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uh scientific documentary but of course

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we touched a nerve

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with that film and uh that film was an

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examination of our science

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in the very large on the very largest

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scales of the world we look at the

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cosmos

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and that is of course the science of

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cosmology

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so the principle examined the very very

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serious challenges to our present

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big bang world view that he's latest

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observations of the cosmos have brought

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to light

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and the other and i would argue

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even more profound paradoxes

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confronting our present world story

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are those which are found at the

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opposite end of the scale

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down in the very very small which is the

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realm in the domain of quantum mechanics

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and so it seemed to me to be a necessary

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and logical

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next step to examine

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the paradoxes of science in the very

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small

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and this of course led me to dr wolfing

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smith and his

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profound work over decades

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on this so-called quantum reality

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problem which has really bedeviled

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physics since the discovery of corporate

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mechanics

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and so that is the genesis of the film

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the end of quote from reality

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well yes i mean certainly and this is

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something we've talked a lot about on

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this show

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is the the whole quantum physics thing

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really blows away this dumbed down

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materialistic you're a biological robot

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and a meaningless universe thing

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your movie does a fantastic job

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of breaking that down and building it up

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from the ground up

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in terms of solid physics and also i

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think he did a great job of

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educating us re-educating us on

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something that we always know

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and that is how solid

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quantum physics is because one of the

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tricks that's been done

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here to get away from the philosophical

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implications of quantum physics

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is to make it sound woo-woo or fluffy or

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something like that and what your movie

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really

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kind of nails if it doesn't nail a lot

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of other things is that

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hey man this has given us a more precise

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scientific

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measure of reality than almost anything

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else we've ever

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encountered so do you maybe want to

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speak to speak to that in general

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yeah it is one of the most important

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things

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to understand about dr smith is that

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by the time the man was 14 he had been

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brought from austria to escape the nazis

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and had applied to cornell university at

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age 14

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for a study in physics

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mathematics and philosophy and

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by the time he was 18 he had his degrees

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in all three by the time he was 20 he

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had a graduate degree in quantum

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mechanics

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and he was trained back in the

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what i would call the golden age

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of quantum mechanics he was literally at

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cornell when richard feynman

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was at cornell these guys were trained

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in the most rigorous imaginable way

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and of course back then we didn't have

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uh

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this flourishing garden of

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the reality marketplace where everybody

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under the sun can

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advance a different interpretation of

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what quantum mechanics means

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excuse me rick but the other thing we

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didn't have is computers i mean when you

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look at the pictures of feynman one of

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the things that blows me away

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is it's that old school chalkboard as

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big as the room

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filled with formulas and you had to sit

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up there and you had to be able to do

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the math

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at a level that probably there aren't a

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handful of people in the world today

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that could do the math at that level

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you had to make it right because you had

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a room full of really super smart kids

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who would sit there and go

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hey uh over here row three line four

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you missed this dr feinman yeah the

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rigor you're absolutely right the rigor

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of the formation the necessity to do

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one's own calculations

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quantum mechanics is a quintessentially

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mathematical theory

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and the great question in the quantum

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reality problem

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is what do these mathematical

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operators in the theory what do they

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mean

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that we

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experience every day and having to do

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these problems and understand precisely

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what each one of these operators

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actually means in terms of a physical

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prediction

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and a physical outcome this i think

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had a great deal to do with dr smith's

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early acceptance of quantum mechanics

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as the foundation of physics the physics

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finally after a 400

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year search for the bottom of the pool

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so to speak had finally arrived

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at its fundamental level with quantum

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mechanics

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and he the first thing to understand

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about his resolution

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of the quantum reality problem is that

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he

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absolutely accepts quantum mechanics as

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a correct

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physical theory and anytime i bring to

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him one of these new articles where

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oh we've made time run backwards oh

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we've we've uh proved that there's other

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universes out there

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he simply laughs and he says when they

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are

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able to falsify quantum mechanics let me

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know

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and until then i really have nothing to

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say to them

290
00:11:27,110 --> 00:11:24,000
so he is old school he is a

291
00:11:29,910 --> 00:11:27,120
an exemplar of the golden age

292
00:11:31,030 --> 00:11:29,920
of quantum mechanics and he is not

293
00:11:34,069 --> 00:11:31,040
easily

294
00:11:35,190 --> 00:11:34,079
bamboozled by some of the popular

295
00:11:38,310 --> 00:11:35,200
science

296
00:11:39,350 --> 00:11:38,320
that is retailed these days uh under the

297
00:11:41,750 --> 00:11:39,360
rubric

298
00:11:42,710 --> 00:11:41,760
of quote interpretations of quantum

299
00:11:44,790 --> 00:11:42,720
mechanics

300
00:11:46,630 --> 00:11:44,800
rick the movie really is terrific and i

301
00:11:48,470 --> 00:11:46,640
encourage anyone who

302
00:11:50,230 --> 00:11:48,480
enjoys the kind of stuff we talk about

303
00:11:52,470 --> 00:11:50,240
on skeptico

304
00:11:53,670 --> 00:11:52,480
to watch it because it really does have

305
00:11:56,069 --> 00:11:53,680
this great breakdown of

306
00:11:57,590 --> 00:11:56,079
the way that you're talking about but

307
00:11:59,350 --> 00:11:57,600
and you knew there was a butt coming

308
00:12:01,590 --> 00:11:59,360
there's actually a couple of

309
00:12:03,509 --> 00:12:01,600
butts coming and i did give you a heads

310
00:12:04,629 --> 00:12:03,519
up prior to the show and told you some

311
00:12:08,230 --> 00:12:04,639
of the things i'm going

312
00:12:11,910 --> 00:12:08,240
after and so one of them relates to

313
00:12:12,550 --> 00:12:11,920
again another part of the of the trailer

314
00:12:14,949 --> 00:12:12,560
actually

315
00:12:19,829 --> 00:12:14,959
so let me play that and then i'll get

316
00:12:24,949 --> 00:12:23,350
we all knew it was coming every pillar

317
00:12:27,990 --> 00:12:24,959
was wobbling at once

318
00:12:31,829 --> 00:12:28,000
political financial religious

319
00:12:34,230 --> 00:12:31,839
military and of course scientific

320
00:12:35,670 --> 00:12:34,240
looking back it is as if we were

321
00:12:38,710 --> 00:12:35,680
hypnotized

322
00:12:41,829 --> 00:12:38,720
and we were no one understands

323
00:12:44,230 --> 00:12:41,839
quantum theory so we have a great

324
00:12:45,590 --> 00:12:44,240
science movie here which is 90 of what

325
00:12:47,550 --> 00:12:45,600
the show's all about but the very

326
00:12:51,110 --> 00:12:47,560
beginning you have this kind of

327
00:12:54,150 --> 00:12:51,120
apocalyptic the world i mean

328
00:12:55,190 --> 00:12:54,160
it's completely to me disconnected to

329
00:12:57,269 --> 00:12:55,200
the science and

330
00:12:59,670 --> 00:12:57,279
i'm into the science i've interviewed a

331
00:13:00,949 --> 00:12:59,680
ton of physicists and quantum physicists

332
00:13:02,790 --> 00:13:00,959
and all those people

333
00:13:05,590 --> 00:13:02,800
there's i don't get the connection to

334
00:13:08,710 --> 00:13:05,600
the apocalyptic stuff

335
00:13:10,949 --> 00:13:08,720
well it is uh fundamental to the film so

336
00:13:13,110 --> 00:13:10,959
let me address it

337
00:13:14,310 --> 00:13:13,120
the reason that we made the film is

338
00:13:17,110 --> 00:13:14,320
because

339
00:13:18,069 --> 00:13:17,120
it has become abundantly clear to dr

340
00:13:21,030 --> 00:13:18,079
smith

341
00:13:22,069 --> 00:13:21,040
and to many other observers by the way

342
00:13:24,069 --> 00:13:22,079
that

343
00:13:25,509 --> 00:13:24,079
we are approaching a moment in history

344
00:13:29,190 --> 00:13:25,519
that has no precedent

345
00:13:31,829 --> 00:13:29,200
in at least the last 400 years

346
00:13:33,269 --> 00:13:31,839
and what happened 400 years ago is that

347
00:13:37,430 --> 00:13:33,279
the entire

348
00:13:40,710 --> 00:13:37,440
world story of western humanity

349
00:13:41,509 --> 00:13:40,720
was overturned when copernicus came

350
00:13:45,509 --> 00:13:41,519
along

351
00:13:49,189 --> 00:13:45,519
and formulated the heliocentric cosmos

352
00:13:51,670 --> 00:13:49,199
newton came along and provided us

353
00:13:53,269 --> 00:13:51,680
a mathematical physics which would

354
00:13:55,670 --> 00:13:53,279
explain

355
00:13:56,949 --> 00:13:55,680
why the planets were actually moving

356
00:14:00,310 --> 00:13:56,959
around the sun

357
00:14:03,509 --> 00:14:00,320
etc etc this was a

358
00:14:06,790 --> 00:14:03,519
probably the biggest change

359
00:14:09,269 --> 00:14:06,800
in the story that humanity tells

360
00:14:09,990 --> 00:14:09,279
itself about the world and its place in

361
00:14:13,590 --> 00:14:10,000
it

362
00:14:16,870 --> 00:14:13,600
since the gospels and for 400 years

363
00:14:19,430 --> 00:14:16,880
that story has been elaborated

364
00:14:20,389 --> 00:14:19,440
on a greater and greater and greater

365
00:14:22,310 --> 00:14:20,399
scale

366
00:14:24,310 --> 00:14:22,320
remember 400 years ago we were the

367
00:14:25,430 --> 00:14:24,320
center of the universe and everything

368
00:14:28,829 --> 00:14:25,440
revolved around

369
00:14:30,470 --> 00:14:28,839
us and that's a certain picture of the

370
00:14:32,629 --> 00:14:30,480
world

371
00:14:33,750 --> 00:14:32,639
beginning with the copernican revolution

372
00:14:37,030 --> 00:14:33,760
and basically

373
00:14:40,790 --> 00:14:37,040
all of science since then has been

374
00:14:42,629 --> 00:14:40,800
a successive emotion of our place in the

375
00:14:46,629 --> 00:14:42,639
cosmos to a less

376
00:14:48,949 --> 00:14:46,639
and less and less significant position

377
00:14:49,870 --> 00:14:48,959
and of course this demotion has been

378
00:14:53,750 --> 00:14:49,880
accompanied by

379
00:14:55,910 --> 00:14:53,760
magnificent scientific miracles

380
00:14:59,350 --> 00:14:55,920
the accomplishments of the scientific

381
00:15:01,910 --> 00:14:59,360
enterprise have been so profound

382
00:15:03,350 --> 00:15:01,920
and the miracles our miracles come from

383
00:15:05,829 --> 00:15:03,360
laboratory

384
00:15:07,590 --> 00:15:05,839
and there have been quite a large number

385
00:15:11,590 --> 00:15:07,600
of them

386
00:15:13,750 --> 00:15:11,600
but as quite often happens

387
00:15:15,189 --> 00:15:13,760
just at the point that you reach out to

388
00:15:18,710 --> 00:15:15,199
grab the brass

389
00:15:19,590 --> 00:15:18,720
ring on this great project to reduce the

390
00:15:22,069 --> 00:15:19,600
world

391
00:15:25,350 --> 00:15:22,079
to that which can be described without

392
00:15:28,870 --> 00:15:25,360
residue by mathematics by physics

393
00:15:31,670 --> 00:15:28,880
the whole project collapses

394
00:15:34,550 --> 00:15:31,680
and collapses specifically and exactly

395
00:15:37,509 --> 00:15:34,560
with the discovery of quantum mechanics

396
00:15:38,949 --> 00:15:37,519
because this 400 year arc of human

397
00:15:43,430 --> 00:15:38,959
history was based on

398
00:15:46,389 --> 00:15:43,440
one fundamental metaphysical assumption

399
00:15:47,030 --> 00:15:46,399
the idea that when you get down to the

400
00:15:50,389 --> 00:15:47,040
bottom

401
00:15:51,269 --> 00:15:50,399
of the world you get these fundamental

402
00:15:54,389 --> 00:15:51,279
particles

403
00:15:56,949 --> 00:15:54,399
whether you call them atoms or quanta

404
00:15:59,350 --> 00:15:56,959
or whatever you want to call them all of

405
00:16:00,790 --> 00:15:59,360
physics over the past 400 years has

406
00:16:04,310 --> 00:16:00,800
essentially been

407
00:16:07,350 --> 00:16:04,320
a reductionist research program

408
00:16:09,910 --> 00:16:07,360
to get down to the bottom of the world

409
00:16:11,670 --> 00:16:09,920
in these little fundamental particles

410
00:16:14,710 --> 00:16:11,680
and the equations and

411
00:16:15,990 --> 00:16:14,720
fields and forces that are associated

412
00:16:20,550 --> 00:16:16,000
with them

413
00:16:23,269 --> 00:16:20,560
that project catastrophically fails

414
00:16:24,310 --> 00:16:23,279
at the beginning of the 20th century

415
00:16:27,670 --> 00:16:24,320
with the

416
00:16:30,230 --> 00:16:27,680
discovery of quantum mechanics now

417
00:16:31,350 --> 00:16:30,240
i am sure alex that at some point in

418
00:16:33,509 --> 00:16:31,360
your life

419
00:16:34,790 --> 00:16:33,519
you have encountered someone who has

420
00:16:36,629 --> 00:16:34,800
said to you

421
00:16:38,870 --> 00:16:36,639
at some point under some set of

422
00:16:40,150 --> 00:16:38,880
circumstances something along the lines

423
00:16:43,350 --> 00:16:40,160
of

424
00:16:47,189 --> 00:16:43,360
dude that's your reality

425
00:16:48,870 --> 00:16:47,199
right you've heard that right

426
00:16:50,389 --> 00:16:48,880
yeah but you're not getting to the point

427
00:16:50,870 --> 00:16:50,399
of what i'm talking about i mean that's

428
00:16:53,910 --> 00:16:50,880
this is

429
00:16:57,110 --> 00:16:53,920
time

430
00:17:00,389 --> 00:16:57,120
this is in fact apocalyptic

431
00:17:02,790 --> 00:17:00,399
alex once you have arrived at the point

432
00:17:06,390 --> 00:17:02,800
in the civilization's development

433
00:17:09,590 --> 00:17:06,400
where every single person on earth

434
00:17:13,110 --> 00:17:09,600
is entitled to their own

435
00:17:13,590 --> 00:17:13,120
reality such such a condition is so far

436
00:17:19,829 --> 00:17:13,600
beyond

437
00:17:23,230 --> 00:17:19,839
anything of pagan antiquity in its

438
00:17:24,710 --> 00:17:23,240
profound rejection of even the

439
00:17:27,909 --> 00:17:24,720
possibility

440
00:17:28,630 --> 00:17:27,919
of objective truth that as wolfgang

441
00:17:30,870 --> 00:17:28,640
smith

442
00:17:32,630 --> 00:17:30,880
very profoundly points out in the film

443
00:17:36,110 --> 00:17:32,640
this is the

444
00:17:39,350 --> 00:17:36,120
end of the road for that

445
00:17:43,350 --> 00:17:39,360
400-year arc of human history

446
00:17:47,029 --> 00:17:43,360
that has led us to these profound

447
00:17:49,990 --> 00:17:47,039
uh paradoxes in quantum mechanics so

448
00:17:50,789 --> 00:17:50,000
the trailer says every pillar was

449
00:17:53,590 --> 00:17:50,799
wobbling

450
00:17:54,630 --> 00:17:53,600
at once well i'll tell you when we made

451
00:17:57,350 --> 00:17:54,640
that trailer

452
00:17:57,990 --> 00:17:57,360
the the dow was humming along everything

453
00:18:01,350 --> 00:17:58,000
was

454
00:18:04,710 --> 00:18:01,360
peachy keen marvy pooh and we now

455
00:18:07,909 --> 00:18:04,720
look at a civilization that is literally

456
00:18:10,710 --> 00:18:07,919
collapsing in front of our eyes

457
00:18:11,590 --> 00:18:10,720
with all due respect alex that's a big

458
00:18:14,789 --> 00:18:11,600
deal

459
00:18:17,990 --> 00:18:14,799
with all due respect this is apocalyptic

460
00:18:20,630 --> 00:18:18,000
we are reaching the end of one very

461
00:18:22,630 --> 00:18:20,640
profound arc of human history

462
00:18:24,870 --> 00:18:22,640
and it is happening directly in front of

463
00:18:28,070 --> 00:18:24,880
our eyes

464
00:18:29,270 --> 00:18:28,080
maybe i'm not i'm not a believer in that

465
00:18:31,270 --> 00:18:29,280
especially when you

466
00:18:32,870 --> 00:18:31,280
look at the science especially the s p

467
00:18:35,110 --> 00:18:32,880
last outlook is it 3 000

468
00:18:37,270 --> 00:18:35,120
i don't know how it's at 3 000 but it's

469
00:18:37,669 --> 00:18:37,280
at 3 000 after corona and all the rest

470
00:18:44,230 --> 00:18:37,679
that

471
00:18:45,990 --> 00:18:44,240
is i i just put up on the screen the

472
00:18:48,070 --> 00:18:46,000
survey congress but

473
00:18:49,350 --> 00:18:48,080
with all these great physicists a

474
00:18:51,669 --> 00:18:49,360
hundred years ago who are getting

475
00:18:53,510 --> 00:18:51,679
together and are saying

476
00:18:55,510 --> 00:18:53,520
hey we have this problem we have this

477
00:18:56,070 --> 00:18:55,520
great philosophical problem that

478
00:18:58,390 --> 00:18:56,080
wolfgang

479
00:18:59,669 --> 00:18:58,400
smith is talking about so this has been

480
00:19:02,950 --> 00:18:59,679
ongoing

481
00:19:04,950 --> 00:19:02,960
for the last 100 years without without

482
00:19:06,470 --> 00:19:04,960
stop but i guess

483
00:19:08,470 --> 00:19:06,480
let me play some clips for you that'll

484
00:19:09,590 --> 00:19:08,480
really drive home where i guess i'm

485
00:19:12,070 --> 00:19:09,600
coming from

486
00:19:13,110 --> 00:19:12,080
i had a chance to interview the very

487
00:19:16,390 --> 00:19:13,120
excellent

488
00:19:18,230 --> 00:19:16,400
cal tech physicist sean carroll

489
00:19:19,510 --> 00:19:18,240
oh god i hate sean carroll please don't

490
00:19:22,470 --> 00:19:19,520
mention that okay

491
00:19:24,230 --> 00:19:22,480
don't say kyle back i mean no i i i've

492
00:19:25,590 --> 00:19:24,240
interviewed sean carroll what a nitwit

493
00:19:27,750 --> 00:19:25,600
but let's not

494
00:19:29,029 --> 00:19:27,760
yeah i'm sorry i like i like truth and

495
00:19:31,350 --> 00:19:29,039
advertising

496
00:19:32,470 --> 00:19:31,360
very so i had a chance to interview the

497
00:19:35,750 --> 00:19:32,480
very excellent dr

498
00:19:37,350 --> 00:19:35,760
donald hoffman caltech physicist and

499
00:19:39,350 --> 00:19:37,360
this book up there that i'm showing the

500
00:19:42,710 --> 00:19:39,360
case against reality

501
00:19:43,190 --> 00:19:42,720
and it is essentially wrestling with the

502
00:19:46,549 --> 00:19:43,200
same

503
00:19:48,710 --> 00:19:46,559
issues he's about developing very

504
00:19:49,590 --> 00:19:48,720
rigorous mathematical models for

505
00:19:51,029 --> 00:19:49,600
consciousness

506
00:19:52,870 --> 00:19:51,039
which we'll have to come back and i'll

507
00:19:53,909 --> 00:19:52,880
have to understand why you don't talk

508
00:19:56,310 --> 00:19:53,919
more about

509
00:19:57,110 --> 00:19:56,320
consciousness in the film because from

510
00:19:59,110 --> 00:19:57,120
all accounts

511
00:20:00,549 --> 00:19:59,120
everyone i hear who talks about quantum

512
00:20:03,510 --> 00:20:00,559
physics and the big

513
00:20:04,230 --> 00:20:03,520
misstep by materialist science is that

514
00:20:06,549 --> 00:20:04,240
they don't

515
00:20:08,310 --> 00:20:06,559
recognize consciousness or they want to

516
00:20:10,310 --> 00:20:08,320
claim that consciousness is an illusion

517
00:20:12,149 --> 00:20:10,320
which is just an absurd idea

518
00:20:13,750 --> 00:20:12,159
so these are some of the topics that i

519
00:20:16,070 --> 00:20:13,760
talked about

520
00:20:17,430 --> 00:20:16,080
with don hoffman let me play you some of

521
00:20:19,430 --> 00:20:17,440
these clips

522
00:20:22,710 --> 00:20:19,440
and i think that'll kind of catapult us

523
00:20:25,190 --> 00:20:22,720
into an interesting discussion

524
00:20:26,149 --> 00:20:25,200
i agree that the current theories of

525
00:20:28,710 --> 00:20:26,159
consciousness

526
00:20:29,590 --> 00:20:28,720
among my scientific colleagues really do

527
00:20:33,350 --> 00:20:29,600
drop the ball

528
00:20:35,510 --> 00:20:33,360
they they start with an unconscious

529
00:20:36,789 --> 00:20:35,520
objective reality of space time and

530
00:20:37,750 --> 00:20:36,799
matter and they try to boot up

531
00:20:39,669 --> 00:20:37,760
consciousness

532
00:20:41,350 --> 00:20:39,679
from that and of course i disagree with

533
00:20:45,430 --> 00:20:41,360
them

534
00:20:47,270 --> 00:20:45,440
precise theories and experiments

535
00:20:50,310 --> 00:20:47,280
at some point you can no longer fool

536
00:20:52,549 --> 00:20:50,320
yourself you realize you just don't have

537
00:20:55,669 --> 00:20:52,559
the beef

538
00:20:57,190 --> 00:20:55,679
science made great strides using the

539
00:20:59,190 --> 00:20:57,200
assumption that space-time and

540
00:21:01,190 --> 00:20:59,200
unconscious matter are the foundations

541
00:21:03,029 --> 00:21:01,200
and the technology that's come out

542
00:21:04,789 --> 00:21:03,039
has been stunning and it's raised

543
00:21:08,470 --> 00:21:04,799
humanity's level of

544
00:21:11,270 --> 00:21:08,480
of life dramatically so there's this

545
00:21:11,669 --> 00:21:11,280
feeling among the scientists that look

546
00:21:15,110 --> 00:21:11,679
the

547
00:21:16,149 --> 00:21:15,120
physicalist framework was our our way of

548
00:21:17,669 --> 00:21:16,159
getting away from the

549
00:21:19,750 --> 00:21:17,679
the weirdness of the spiritual

550
00:21:20,390 --> 00:21:19,760
traditions and and breaking free look

551
00:21:24,149 --> 00:21:20,400
what it's

552
00:21:25,990 --> 00:21:24,159
for a second because

553
00:21:27,669 --> 00:21:26,000
you don't object any of that i'm sure

554
00:21:29,669 --> 00:21:27,679
it's not infillable

555
00:21:30,710 --> 00:21:29,679
but but he isn't talking about he isn't

556
00:21:33,750 --> 00:21:30,720
talking he doesn't

557
00:21:34,630 --> 00:21:33,760
have a supportive film that shows kind

558
00:21:37,830 --> 00:21:34,640
of

559
00:21:40,310 --> 00:21:37,840
military people jumping out and doing

560
00:21:42,149 --> 00:21:40,320
crowd control and fires and burning and

561
00:21:43,669 --> 00:21:42,159
apocalyptic kind of stuff that's not

562
00:21:45,750 --> 00:21:43,679
because he's uh that's because he's

563
00:21:46,950 --> 00:21:45,760
nowhere near as profound the philosopher

564
00:21:49,350 --> 00:21:46,960
as dr smith

565
00:21:51,190 --> 00:21:49,360
and he shouldn't be expected to have

566
00:21:53,750 --> 00:21:51,200
been a student of history

567
00:21:55,669 --> 00:21:53,760
and of the history of ideas to the level

568
00:21:57,830 --> 00:21:55,679
that a man like dr wolfgang smith has

569
00:22:00,230 --> 00:21:57,840
done i mean there's just no comparison

570
00:22:01,909 --> 00:22:00,240
that's nothing against the good doctor

571
00:22:04,669 --> 00:22:01,919
it's just we're talking about wolfgang

572
00:22:08,310 --> 00:22:04,679
smith here this is a man who is

573
00:22:11,190 --> 00:22:08,320
profoundly profoundly familiar

574
00:22:11,990 --> 00:22:11,200
not only with quantum mechanics which he

575
00:22:14,630 --> 00:22:12,000
actually has

576
00:22:16,870 --> 00:22:14,640
a graduate degree in not only a

577
00:22:20,070 --> 00:22:16,880
doctorate in mathematics he's taught at

578
00:22:20,390 --> 00:22:20,080
mit for heaven's sakes this is a man who

579
00:22:23,430 --> 00:22:20,400
is

580
00:22:27,990 --> 00:22:23,440
intimately familiar with every

581
00:22:31,029 --> 00:22:28,000
and school of wisdom of human antiquity

582
00:22:34,310 --> 00:22:31,039
and it's that kind of

583
00:22:37,510 --> 00:22:34,320
breadth of vision and that kind

584
00:22:39,350 --> 00:22:37,520
of intellectual background that enabled

585
00:22:42,310 --> 00:22:39,360
him to point out

586
00:22:42,870 --> 00:22:42,320
two and a half years ago in our trailer

587
00:22:45,990 --> 00:22:42,880
that

588
00:22:46,710 --> 00:22:46,000
sometime in the very near future the

589
00:22:49,590 --> 00:22:46,720
wheels

590
00:22:50,789 --> 00:22:49,600
were going to come off the present

591
00:22:52,870 --> 00:22:50,799
civilization

592
00:22:54,630 --> 00:22:52,880
the mere fact that it has happened in

593
00:22:55,430 --> 00:22:54,640
the first week of the release of the

594
00:22:57,510 --> 00:22:55,440
film

595
00:22:59,110 --> 00:22:57,520
i don't think he would claim that he had

596
00:23:02,149 --> 00:22:59,120
predicted that

597
00:23:04,149 --> 00:23:02,159
but it was abundantly clear to him and

598
00:23:05,990 --> 00:23:04,159
to those who had studied him

599
00:23:07,350 --> 00:23:06,000
that we were headed for this there was

600
00:23:09,029 --> 00:23:07,360
no doubt about it

601
00:23:10,630 --> 00:23:09,039
yeah i don't buy that the wheels have

602
00:23:12,230 --> 00:23:10,640
come off the civilization but

603
00:23:13,909 --> 00:23:12,240
let me play the next clip let me play

604
00:23:17,029 --> 00:23:13,919
this let's go ahead and stick

605
00:23:20,070 --> 00:23:17,039
keep watching alex yeah i mean i

606
00:23:21,270 --> 00:23:20,080
i i'm just not on a apocalyptic kind of

607
00:23:23,190 --> 00:23:21,280
guy but

608
00:23:25,190 --> 00:23:23,200
i don't believe it it's going to get

609
00:23:26,230 --> 00:23:25,200
into theology real quick here so let me

610
00:23:29,110 --> 00:23:26,240
play this next

611
00:23:30,470 --> 00:23:29,120
clip okay one could make the case and i

612
00:23:32,950 --> 00:23:30,480
have on the show that

613
00:23:34,789 --> 00:23:32,960
the cultish practices that go hand in

614
00:23:37,270 --> 00:23:34,799
hand with christianity

615
00:23:38,470 --> 00:23:37,280
really need to be viewed for their mind

616
00:23:40,789 --> 00:23:38,480
control

617
00:23:43,029 --> 00:23:40,799
aspects but the the fact that we're

618
00:23:43,750 --> 00:23:43,039
doing that to kids especially is not

619
00:23:46,710 --> 00:23:43,760
exactly

620
00:23:48,470 --> 00:23:46,720
uh promoting free thinking i know from

621
00:23:48,870 --> 00:23:48,480
my own experience being brought up in

622
00:23:51,510 --> 00:23:48,880
the

623
00:23:52,870 --> 00:23:51,520
greek orthodox church and having to walk

624
00:23:55,669 --> 00:23:52,880
up to communion and

625
00:23:56,230 --> 00:23:55,679
kiss the hand of some old man as he

626
00:23:59,830 --> 00:23:56,240
dropped

627
00:24:02,390 --> 00:23:59,840
bread into my hand to feed me

628
00:24:03,029 --> 00:24:02,400
i mean there's some deep symbology there

629
00:24:05,669 --> 00:24:03,039
is

630
00:24:06,310 --> 00:24:05,679
for a lot of folks genuine deep

631
00:24:08,549 --> 00:24:06,320
programming

632
00:24:09,830 --> 00:24:08,559
i agree with you completely on that i i

633
00:24:12,149 --> 00:24:09,840
felt that the

634
00:24:14,549 --> 00:24:12,159
the institutions that i was subjected to

635
00:24:15,830 --> 00:24:14,559
were there not to help me to explore and

636
00:24:17,430 --> 00:24:15,840
find out who i am

637
00:24:19,190 --> 00:24:17,440
they had the answers i needed to

638
00:24:21,029 --> 00:24:19,200
understand their answers and

639
00:24:23,590 --> 00:24:21,039
and and believe their answers and to

640
00:24:26,149 --> 00:24:23,600
question anything that they said

641
00:24:27,669 --> 00:24:26,159
was to not be a believer and therefore

642
00:24:30,070 --> 00:24:27,679
be subject to hell

643
00:24:31,350 --> 00:24:30,080
so of course this is the achilles heel

644
00:24:33,669 --> 00:24:31,360
of the film

645
00:24:35,269 --> 00:24:33,679
and this theology in general it just

646
00:24:37,990 --> 00:24:35,279
kind of slips

647
00:24:38,789 --> 00:24:38,000
without warning it slips from solid

648
00:24:41,669 --> 00:24:38,799
science

649
00:24:43,669 --> 00:24:41,679
and solid thinking of quantum physics

650
00:24:45,990 --> 00:24:43,679
into kind of this weird leap

651
00:24:48,390 --> 00:24:46,000
towards catholicism and wolfgang talks

652
00:24:50,230 --> 00:24:48,400
about how he's converted to catholicism

653
00:24:51,430 --> 00:24:50,240
by his wife who's a catholic and then

654
00:24:54,789 --> 00:24:51,440
there's this kind of

655
00:24:57,669 --> 00:24:54,799
strange but not fully detailed christian

656
00:25:01,110 --> 00:24:57,679
apologetics that somehow links in some

657
00:25:02,950 --> 00:25:01,120
indirect way quantum physics to

658
00:25:04,149 --> 00:25:02,960
your theology i mean i hope you

659
00:25:07,190 --> 00:25:04,159
understand how people

660
00:25:10,230 --> 00:25:07,200
see that as just completely

661
00:25:12,149 --> 00:25:10,240
disconnected disjointed

662
00:25:13,430 --> 00:25:12,159
yes well it's been quite a long time

663
00:25:17,269 --> 00:25:13,440
since the

664
00:25:20,390 --> 00:25:17,279
the uh classical

665
00:25:22,070 --> 00:25:20,400
cosmology presented to us in the

666
00:25:24,950 --> 00:25:22,080
christian tradition

667
00:25:27,350 --> 00:25:24,960
has been as powerfully vindicated as it

668
00:25:29,909 --> 00:25:27,360
has in the work of dr wolf ben smith

669
00:25:30,390 --> 00:25:29,919
i would not expect any other reaction

670
00:25:33,669 --> 00:25:30,400
from

671
00:25:35,990 --> 00:25:33,679
i mean having heard what you said about

672
00:25:36,789 --> 00:25:36,000
your understanding of your brief work

673
00:25:39,990 --> 00:25:36,799
about suffering

674
00:25:42,630 --> 00:25:40,000
as being a form of mind control i

675
00:25:45,909 --> 00:25:42,640
perfectly understand your uncomfortable

676
00:25:48,149 --> 00:25:45,919
reaction to dr smith's contrary journey

677
00:25:49,510 --> 00:25:48,159
after all his journey is in the exact

678
00:25:52,230 --> 00:25:49,520
opposite direction

679
00:25:54,390 --> 00:25:52,240
here is a man who at 14 years of age

680
00:25:55,110 --> 00:25:54,400
applied to cornell university and he was

681
00:25:57,510 --> 00:25:55,120
asked

682
00:25:58,390 --> 00:25:57,520
what do you want to study and he said

683
00:26:00,549 --> 00:25:58,400
physics

684
00:26:02,470 --> 00:26:00,559
and they asked him why do you want to

685
00:26:04,230 --> 00:26:02,480
study it and he said because i am

686
00:26:07,750 --> 00:26:04,240
convinced that physics

687
00:26:09,269 --> 00:26:07,760
is the key to understanding the universe

688
00:26:10,070 --> 00:26:09,279
and if you will remember in the film he

689
00:26:13,390 --> 00:26:10,080
has a wonderful

690
00:26:15,750 --> 00:26:13,400
little pause followed by a

691
00:26:18,390 --> 00:26:15,760
self-deprecating little smile and then

692
00:26:21,669 --> 00:26:18,400
he looks at the camera and he says

693
00:26:24,710 --> 00:26:21,679
needless to say i have changed

694
00:26:27,590 --> 00:26:24,720
my mind about that

695
00:26:28,390 --> 00:26:27,600
so dr smith's progression is in the

696
00:26:31,350 --> 00:26:28,400
precise

697
00:26:32,470 --> 00:26:31,360
opposite direction that you and your

698
00:26:34,390 --> 00:26:32,480
guest

699
00:26:36,149 --> 00:26:34,400
have indicated to us that you have

700
00:26:38,310 --> 00:26:36,159
followed therefore it

701
00:26:40,390 --> 00:26:38,320
shouldn't become much of a surprise it's

702
00:26:42,149 --> 00:26:40,400
just going to be some aspect of his work

703
00:26:43,590 --> 00:26:42,159
that rubbed you the wrong way on first

704
00:26:45,190 --> 00:26:43,600
healing

705
00:26:46,710 --> 00:26:45,200
well it's not that they rub me the wrong

706
00:26:47,909 --> 00:26:46,720
way they're just completely disconnected

707
00:26:51,110 --> 00:26:47,919
with the science there's no

708
00:26:53,350 --> 00:26:51,120
jesus on the cross connection

709
00:26:55,029 --> 00:26:53,360
jesus on the cross in the film either

710
00:26:57,350 --> 00:26:55,039
alex so that's my point

711
00:26:59,510 --> 00:26:57,360
that's my point so why are so why are we

712
00:27:03,350 --> 00:26:59,520
introduced so what we have is

713
00:27:07,190 --> 00:27:03,360
essentially a straw man here dr smith's

714
00:27:10,630 --> 00:27:07,200
conversion story is a part of the

715
00:27:14,310 --> 00:27:10,640
profile of how his intellect developed

716
00:27:17,669 --> 00:27:14,320
over the decades of his life there is no

717
00:27:20,549 --> 00:27:17,679
question of you must be a catholic

718
00:27:21,669 --> 00:27:20,559
or you must be a christian in order to

719
00:27:25,269 --> 00:27:21,679
understand

720
00:27:29,029 --> 00:27:25,279
his resolution of the quantum enigma but

721
00:27:32,630 --> 00:27:29,039
but and this is what i humbly propose

722
00:27:34,630 --> 00:27:32,640
that you might be missing what we do

723
00:27:36,549 --> 00:27:34,640
have to recognize

724
00:27:37,909 --> 00:27:36,559
in dr smith's resolution of the quantum

725
00:27:41,830 --> 00:27:37,919
enigma is a

726
00:27:44,870 --> 00:27:41,840
form of causation that is both

727
00:27:47,909 --> 00:27:44,880
unknown to physics and

728
00:27:50,389 --> 00:27:47,919
right in front of our eyes every time we

729
00:27:53,590 --> 00:27:50,399
measure a quantum system

730
00:27:54,870 --> 00:27:53,600
once that is understood we have no

731
00:27:58,789 --> 00:27:54,880
choice but to look

732
00:28:01,430 --> 00:27:58,799
outside of physics for the resolution

733
00:28:02,230 --> 00:28:01,440
to the quantum enigma and then jam it

734
00:28:06,070 --> 00:28:02,240
back into

735
00:28:08,310 --> 00:28:06,080
this outdated dogmatic crazy

736
00:28:09,110 --> 00:28:08,320
cosmology of catholicism right that's

737
00:28:10,630 --> 00:28:09,120
where we're gonna

738
00:28:12,389 --> 00:28:10,640
that's how we're gonna leap and that's

739
00:28:13,909 --> 00:28:12,399
where we're gonna leap to why why would

740
00:28:15,269 --> 00:28:13,919
we go there

741
00:28:17,830 --> 00:28:15,279
well because that's where the evidence

742
00:28:21,110 --> 00:28:17,840
leads us of course to catholicism

743
00:28:23,510 --> 00:28:21,120
well no to vertical causality

744
00:28:25,830 --> 00:28:23,520
alex there's nothing about the

745
00:28:28,630 --> 00:28:25,840
resolution of the quantum enigma

746
00:28:31,430 --> 00:28:28,640
in wolfgang's work or in the film that

747
00:28:34,750 --> 00:28:31,440
requires you to recite the nice seen

748
00:28:35,990 --> 00:28:34,760
creed for heaven's sakes it's a complete

749
00:28:39,029 --> 00:28:36,000
misrepresentation

750
00:28:42,149 --> 00:28:39,039
of both the film and of his work

751
00:28:45,510 --> 00:28:42,159
now what we do have to confront is a

752
00:28:48,549 --> 00:28:45,520
form of causality that is

753
00:28:50,310 --> 00:28:48,559
active and present in every measurement

754
00:28:53,830 --> 00:28:50,320
of a quantum system

755
00:28:54,950 --> 00:28:53,840
that does not reduce to any form of

756
00:28:58,310 --> 00:28:54,960
causality

757
00:29:02,149 --> 00:28:58,320
known to science it is true

758
00:29:05,110 --> 00:29:02,159
that this form of causality is vertical

759
00:29:05,590 --> 00:29:05,120
rather than horizontal it is true that a

760
00:29:09,269 --> 00:29:05,600
form

761
00:29:12,950 --> 00:29:09,279
of vertical causality puts us right back

762
00:29:16,070 --> 00:29:12,960
in a world that does not reduce

763
00:29:18,950 --> 00:29:16,080
to the equations of physics

764
00:29:20,789 --> 00:29:18,960
sorry that's just where we're going

765
00:29:22,470 --> 00:29:20,799
there's there's nothing wrong buddy i'm

766
00:29:23,830 --> 00:29:22,480
totally on board i'm totally on board

767
00:29:25,990 --> 00:29:23,840
with all that that's why i'm playing

768
00:29:28,070 --> 00:29:26,000
donald hoffman well let me jump to

769
00:29:29,830 --> 00:29:28,080
it hold on let me go let me go to a

770
00:29:32,950 --> 00:29:29,840
different point here i was watching that

771
00:29:35,510 --> 00:29:32,960
interview slash debate you did with my

772
00:29:37,350 --> 00:29:35,520
friend of me the skeptic dr michael

773
00:29:38,630 --> 00:29:37,360
shermer who has been on the show and i

774
00:29:41,110 --> 00:29:38,640
think is utterly

775
00:29:41,990 --> 00:29:41,120
destroyed in terms of his understanding

776
00:29:44,310 --> 00:29:42,000
of

777
00:29:46,389 --> 00:29:44,320
extended consciousness his inability to

778
00:29:47,269 --> 00:29:46,399
accept that we don't die after death and

779
00:29:49,269 --> 00:29:47,279
that's the

780
00:29:51,029 --> 00:29:49,279
best result that we can get from

781
00:29:52,310 --> 00:29:51,039
frontier science and it comes back over

782
00:29:54,549 --> 00:29:52,320
and over again and it directly

783
00:29:57,269 --> 00:29:54,559
contradicts his book

784
00:29:59,110 --> 00:29:57,279
but he was hitting you pretty hard on

785
00:30:01,830 --> 00:29:59,120
the catholic thing

786
00:30:02,470 --> 00:30:01,840
and i thought and listening to you now

787
00:30:05,190 --> 00:30:02,480
is

788
00:30:05,990 --> 00:30:05,200
you in a way you you just don't get it

789
00:30:09,110 --> 00:30:06,000
rick

790
00:30:12,870 --> 00:30:09,120
i mean you don't understand why

791
00:30:15,990 --> 00:30:12,880
non-christians like me are just

792
00:30:18,310 --> 00:30:16,000
stunned how how any really

793
00:30:19,590 --> 00:30:18,320
bright intelligent person that you are

794
00:30:22,310 --> 00:30:19,600
can buy into

795
00:30:23,269 --> 00:30:22,320
such a wacky cosmology i have this

796
00:30:25,669 --> 00:30:23,279
interview i want to

797
00:30:26,789 --> 00:30:25,679
read to you this clip from the very

798
00:30:28,470 --> 00:30:26,799
excellent

799
00:30:31,110 --> 00:30:28,480
richard smoley who wrote a book a while

800
00:30:34,070 --> 00:30:31,120
back called how god became god what

801
00:30:34,950 --> 00:30:34,080
scholars are really saying about god and

802
00:30:37,510 --> 00:30:34,960
the bible

803
00:30:39,190 --> 00:30:37,520
smoley is oxford trained harvard trained

804
00:30:40,870 --> 00:30:39,200
highly regarded all this stuff

805
00:30:42,950 --> 00:30:40,880
here's richard smoly in his interview

806
00:30:46,230 --> 00:30:42,960
that he did with my buddy miguel

807
00:30:48,870 --> 00:30:46,240
connor on and by agnostic radio he says

808
00:30:50,070 --> 00:30:48,880
what are we supposed to believe god got

809
00:30:52,389 --> 00:30:50,080
mad at the human race

810
00:30:53,990 --> 00:30:52,399
for eating a piece of fruit in armenia 6

811
00:30:55,750 --> 00:30:54,000
000 years ago

812
00:30:57,669 --> 00:30:55,760
he got so mad that he condemned

813
00:30:59,590 --> 00:30:57,679
everybody to internal damnation

814
00:31:01,110 --> 00:30:59,600
except he kind of felt bad about this

815
00:31:02,789 --> 00:31:01,120
afterward so he

816
00:31:04,470 --> 00:31:02,799
sent part of himself down to have it

817
00:31:06,230 --> 00:31:04,480
tortured to death which

818
00:31:08,310 --> 00:31:06,240
somehow made it all right except not

819
00:31:08,870 --> 00:31:08,320
really because if you don't buy this

820
00:31:11,509 --> 00:31:08,880
story

821
00:31:13,269 --> 00:31:11,519
you're still going to fry forever does

822
00:31:16,470 --> 00:31:13,279
that make any sense

823
00:31:17,110 --> 00:31:16,480
of course it doesn't it's phrased in of

824
00:31:19,750 --> 00:31:17,120
course

825
00:31:21,110 --> 00:31:19,760
elaborate theologies rituals and

826
00:31:24,630 --> 00:31:21,120
doxologies

827
00:31:26,789 --> 00:31:24,640
but it's still a ridiculous story

828
00:31:27,909 --> 00:31:26,799
that's the part that hold on that's the

829
00:31:30,710 --> 00:31:27,919
part that

830
00:31:32,870 --> 00:31:30,720
take the movie aside for a second but

831
00:31:35,830 --> 00:31:32,880
you are making a connection

832
00:31:37,190 --> 00:31:35,840
between who we are supposed to hold up

833
00:31:39,269 --> 00:31:37,200
as this figure this

834
00:31:40,789 --> 00:31:39,279
bright shining light of physics and

835
00:31:44,070 --> 00:31:40,799
knowledge and yet

836
00:31:45,430 --> 00:31:44,080
he seems to be endorsing a cosmology

837
00:31:48,149 --> 00:31:45,440
that we all sit back and go

838
00:31:48,630 --> 00:31:48,159
well that's just insane it's ridiculous

839
00:31:52,149 --> 00:31:48,640
well

840
00:31:55,350 --> 00:31:52,159
let me first of all say he doesn't seem

841
00:31:55,669 --> 00:31:55,360
to be endorsing it he most emphatically

842
00:32:02,269 --> 00:31:55,679
and

843
00:32:03,830 --> 00:32:02,279
endorse it now let's go back to your

844
00:32:07,750 --> 00:32:03,840
well-respected

845
00:32:08,310 --> 00:32:07,760
oxford dawn and let me just say first of

846
00:32:09,909 --> 00:32:08,320
all that

847
00:32:12,470 --> 00:32:09,919
it's perfectly understandable that

848
00:32:15,110 --> 00:32:12,480
nobody would believe such nonsense

849
00:32:16,070 --> 00:32:15,120
the problem is he is the one who

850
00:32:18,630 --> 00:32:16,080
concocted

851
00:32:19,430 --> 00:32:18,640
the nonsense this is what we see in

852
00:32:22,789 --> 00:32:19,440
logic

853
00:32:26,830 --> 00:32:22,799
as the classic straw man

854
00:32:29,509 --> 00:32:26,840
argument you concoct a complete

855
00:32:33,430 --> 00:32:29,519
fraud and allege this to be

856
00:32:36,870 --> 00:32:33,440
the christian message that is a lie

857
00:32:39,909 --> 00:32:36,880
there has never been a christian message

858
00:32:40,470 --> 00:32:39,919
remotely or approximately that which

859
00:32:43,669 --> 00:32:40,480
your

860
00:32:45,350 --> 00:32:43,679
oxford dawn who is so well respected

861
00:32:48,230 --> 00:32:45,360
but part of that cosmology is not right

862
00:32:50,470 --> 00:32:48,240
out of the bible that is nonsense

863
00:32:52,710 --> 00:32:50,480
that is not out of the bible that is out

864
00:32:56,470 --> 00:32:52,720
of the author of how god became

865
00:32:58,549 --> 00:32:56,480
god in other words the oxford dawn

866
00:33:00,149 --> 00:32:58,559
rather than deal with the actual

867
00:33:03,029 --> 00:33:00,159
christian kerygma

868
00:33:04,149 --> 00:33:03,039
reconstructs it as a straw man so that

869
00:33:07,029 --> 00:33:04,159
he has something

870
00:33:07,750 --> 00:33:07,039
easy what is strongman what is that

871
00:33:11,269 --> 00:33:07,760
about this

872
00:33:14,470 --> 00:33:11,279
hard work of actually addressing the

873
00:33:15,590 --> 00:33:14,480
content of the revelation of the

874
00:33:17,590 --> 00:33:15,600
catholic religion

875
00:33:19,190 --> 00:33:17,600
but that's up to him you keep throwing

876
00:33:21,269 --> 00:33:19,200
up this straw man stuff what is straw

877
00:33:22,070 --> 00:33:21,279
man about this this is the story that

878
00:33:36,470 --> 00:33:22,080
we've all

879
00:33:40,230 --> 00:33:38,950
tell us where richard smalley is created

880
00:33:44,470 --> 00:33:40,240
astronomy

881
00:33:47,509 --> 00:33:44,480
there is no remote point

882
00:33:50,549 --> 00:33:47,519
of congruence between the

883
00:33:53,990 --> 00:33:50,559
straw man on your screen

884
00:33:58,110 --> 00:33:54,000
and the actual content of christian

885
00:34:02,070 --> 00:33:58,120
revelation any christian knows that

886
00:34:04,870 --> 00:34:02,080
instantaneously so if we want to discuss

887
00:34:06,070 --> 00:34:04,880
christian cosmology let's discuss

888
00:34:08,710 --> 00:34:06,080
christian cosmology

889
00:34:09,349 --> 00:34:08,720
if we're going to discuss a straw man

890
00:34:12,790 --> 00:34:09,359
from your

891
00:34:13,190 --> 00:34:12,800
highly respected oxford dawn i simply

892
00:34:17,349 --> 00:34:13,200
laugh

893
00:34:20,470 --> 00:34:17,359
because it has absolutely no remote

894
00:34:22,790 --> 00:34:20,480
connection to the actual message

895
00:34:24,869 --> 00:34:22,800
of the christian religion that's molly

896
00:34:26,950 --> 00:34:24,879
is a christian

897
00:34:28,470 --> 00:34:26,960
he's no kind of a christian that i would

898
00:34:30,950 --> 00:34:28,480
recognize i suppose

899
00:34:31,829 --> 00:34:30,960
nominally anybody can call themselves a

900
00:34:34,629 --> 00:34:31,839
christian

901
00:34:35,829 --> 00:34:34,639
but if that is his understanding of the

902
00:34:38,230 --> 00:34:35,839
christian religion

903
00:34:39,750 --> 00:34:38,240
well correct i keep i keep insisting

904
00:34:41,909 --> 00:34:39,760
that what this is such a

905
00:34:43,270 --> 00:34:41,919
[\h__\h] skeptical thing to claim the

906
00:34:44,230 --> 00:34:43,280
straw man thing it's like when they

907
00:34:46,710 --> 00:34:44,240
throw out these things

908
00:34:47,669 --> 00:34:46,720
what what is incorrect about what

909
00:34:50,230 --> 00:34:47,679
smolly's

910
00:34:51,109 --> 00:34:50,240
there is nothing christian correct about

911
00:34:53,109 --> 00:34:51,119
it see

912
00:34:54,470 --> 00:34:53,119
here's the thing alex but this is the

913
00:34:59,270 --> 00:34:54,480
adam and eve story

914
00:35:00,950 --> 00:34:59,280
about it [\h__\h] tell me when i can okay

915
00:35:02,630 --> 00:35:00,960
go ahead and finish whatever point you

916
00:35:03,270 --> 00:35:02,640
want to make because i have one i want

917
00:35:05,510 --> 00:35:03,280
to make

918
00:35:07,030 --> 00:35:05,520
well please please make it but he keeps

919
00:35:09,349 --> 00:35:07,040
claiming that there's a that there's a

920
00:35:14,470 --> 00:35:09,359
straw man tell us what the straw man is

921
00:35:21,430 --> 00:35:18,230
okay great there is not a word

922
00:35:24,790 --> 00:35:21,440
not a syllable not a phrase

923
00:35:28,829 --> 00:35:24,800
not a sentence in that entire

924
00:35:30,310 --> 00:35:28,839
straw man concoction that proceeds from

925
00:35:33,750 --> 00:35:30,320
scripture

926
00:35:36,950 --> 00:35:33,760
or tradition or the official teachings

927
00:35:40,630 --> 00:35:36,960
of the catholic church not a word

928
00:35:45,270 --> 00:35:40,640
not a sentence not a syllable it is a

929
00:35:48,870 --> 00:35:45,280
complete concoction a confabulation

930
00:35:51,910 --> 00:35:48,880
of an enemy of that revelation

931
00:35:53,990 --> 00:35:51,920
and instead of addressing the scriptures

932
00:35:55,990 --> 00:35:54,000
instead of addressing the fathers

933
00:35:59,109 --> 00:35:56,000
instead of addressing the councils

934
00:36:03,270 --> 00:35:59,119
the actual teachings of the church he

935
00:36:07,030 --> 00:36:03,280
rewrites them in a s stupid

936
00:36:10,150 --> 00:36:07,040
and intellectually it's an

937
00:36:13,349 --> 00:36:10,160
insult to the intelligence of any

938
00:36:16,710 --> 00:36:13,359
honest researcher to consider that

939
00:36:17,670 --> 00:36:16,720
glop as having anything to do with the

940
00:36:21,190 --> 00:36:17,680
authentic

941
00:36:25,109 --> 00:36:21,200
revelation of the christian religion so

942
00:36:27,430 --> 00:36:25,119
i laugh at him do you have anything else

943
00:36:28,950 --> 00:36:27,440
well i i just had again i would go back

944
00:36:29,990 --> 00:36:28,960
to my earlier point i don't have

945
00:36:31,990 --> 00:36:30,000
anything else because

946
00:36:34,230 --> 00:36:32,000
when i go back to my earlier point here

947
00:36:36,630 --> 00:36:34,240
is my earlier point

948
00:36:38,310 --> 00:36:36,640
people are going to listen to this

949
00:36:41,030 --> 00:36:38,320
little exchange

950
00:36:43,109 --> 00:36:41,040
and they're going to read richard

951
00:36:44,150 --> 00:36:43,119
smoly's quote up there or listen to me

952
00:36:46,310 --> 00:36:44,160
reading it

953
00:36:48,870 --> 00:36:46,320
and they're going to go yeah that's what

954
00:36:51,589 --> 00:36:48,880
christianity has always said there was

955
00:36:54,230 --> 00:36:51,599
adam and eve and he ate the apple so the

956
00:36:55,109 --> 00:36:54,240
wise man once said alex as a very wise

957
00:36:56,550 --> 00:36:55,119
man once said

958
00:36:58,230 --> 00:36:56,560
i just want you to recognize how many

959
00:37:00,630 --> 00:36:58,240
times you interrupt me so your

960
00:37:02,550 --> 00:37:00,640
indignation at my interruptions of you

961
00:37:04,630 --> 00:37:02,560
but that's fine go ahead your point no

962
00:37:06,390 --> 00:37:04,640
no no no you make a good point i will

963
00:37:08,069 --> 00:37:06,400
shut up and let you make your point go

964
00:37:10,310 --> 00:37:08,079
ahead no no i

965
00:37:12,390 --> 00:37:10,320
enjoy the interchange i just don't you

966
00:37:16,230 --> 00:37:12,400
know how do i

967
00:37:19,670 --> 00:37:16,240
okay so look here's the thing i am happy

968
00:37:22,470 --> 00:37:19,680
to defend my faith to anyone

969
00:37:24,150 --> 00:37:22,480
at any time under any circumstances

970
00:37:27,430 --> 00:37:24,160
without reservation

971
00:37:32,470 --> 00:37:27,440
what i object to is having a

972
00:37:35,670 --> 00:37:32,480
completely ridiculous self-constructed

973
00:37:39,190 --> 00:37:35,680
straw man put up on the screen

974
00:37:42,310 --> 00:37:39,200
as if that was my faith it is not

975
00:37:44,870 --> 00:37:42,320
it has nothing to do with my faith and

976
00:37:48,150 --> 00:37:44,880
if we want to discuss my faith

977
00:37:50,230 --> 00:37:48,160
i would at least insist that the

978
00:37:53,589 --> 00:37:50,240
arguments be predicated on the

979
00:37:55,750 --> 00:37:53,599
actual content of that faith

980
00:37:57,430 --> 00:37:55,760
that is found in scripture and in

981
00:38:00,630 --> 00:37:57,440
apostolic tradition

982
00:38:04,069 --> 00:38:00,640
i'm quite happy to defend both

983
00:38:07,589 --> 00:38:04,079
your oxford dawn wasn't intellectually

984
00:38:08,630 --> 00:38:07,599
honest enough to address those sources

985
00:38:12,230 --> 00:38:08,640
of debate

986
00:38:14,310 --> 00:38:12,240
he rewrote it as a straw man

987
00:38:17,510 --> 00:38:14,320
and somehow this is supposed to impress

988
00:38:18,950 --> 00:38:17,520
me i don't care if 90 million people

989
00:38:22,390 --> 00:38:18,960
think that's the truth

990
00:38:23,030 --> 00:38:22,400
it's complete [\h__\h] and i i have the

991
00:38:26,710 --> 00:38:23,040
greatest

992
00:38:29,589 --> 00:38:26,720
sympathy and poignant sadness for anyone

993
00:38:30,230 --> 00:38:29,599
who would mistake that garbage for the

994
00:38:33,589 --> 00:38:30,240
christian

995
00:38:35,510 --> 00:38:33,599
religion well let me take one more stab

996
00:38:37,750 --> 00:38:35,520
at this and i don't know if we're going

997
00:38:41,430 --> 00:38:37,760
to get through or not

998
00:38:44,470 --> 00:38:41,440
i don't have any special connection to

999
00:38:46,790 --> 00:38:44,480
richard smoley i just think he you can

1000
00:38:48,470 --> 00:38:46,800
diss him all you want or not respect him

1001
00:38:50,550 --> 00:38:48,480
or you keep bringing up oxford

1002
00:38:51,829 --> 00:38:50,560
because i guess i brought it up it's

1003
00:38:54,790 --> 00:38:51,839
just to kind of

1004
00:38:55,589 --> 00:38:54,800
have a touchstone of who this guy is but

1005
00:38:58,710 --> 00:38:55,599
my point

1006
00:39:01,910 --> 00:38:58,720
that i was really trying to make rick is

1007
00:39:03,910 --> 00:39:01,920
i don't see i was brought up in the

1008
00:39:05,270 --> 00:39:03,920
catholic not the catholic church but as

1009
00:39:06,230 --> 00:39:05,280
we mentioned in the greek orthodox

1010
00:39:07,910 --> 00:39:06,240
church which is

1011
00:39:09,430 --> 00:39:07,920
pretty damn close to the catholic church

1012
00:39:11,349 --> 00:39:09,440
in a lot of ways

1013
00:39:12,790 --> 00:39:11,359
i immediately i understand exactly what

1014
00:39:14,390 --> 00:39:12,800
smoley's talking about

1015
00:39:16,310 --> 00:39:14,400
i'm not ignorant that would explain why

1016
00:39:19,510 --> 00:39:16,320
you're no longer in the greek orthodox

1017
00:39:22,150 --> 00:39:19,520
church that that's now you're

1018
00:39:24,550 --> 00:39:22,160
now you're talking about a your your

1019
00:39:25,990 --> 00:39:24,560
interpretation of my theology which you

1020
00:39:28,790 --> 00:39:26,000
don't know

1021
00:39:29,990 --> 00:39:28,800
well you reject the greek orthodox faith

1022
00:39:32,790 --> 00:39:30,000
which is in many ways

1023
00:39:34,390 --> 00:39:32,800
very close to the catholic faith right

1024
00:39:35,510 --> 00:39:34,400
neither one of them have the slightest

1025
00:39:38,150 --> 00:39:35,520
thing to do with this

1026
00:39:38,710 --> 00:39:38,160
straw man of richard smalling rick but

1027
00:39:40,550 --> 00:39:38,720
see you

1028
00:39:41,750 --> 00:39:40,560
you keep kind of throwing that out there

1029
00:39:44,390 --> 00:39:41,760
so number one

1030
00:39:45,670 --> 00:39:44,400
because it happens to be true alex it's

1031
00:39:50,150 --> 00:39:45,680
a straw man

1032
00:39:52,390 --> 00:39:50,160
it is a concocted misrepresentation

1033
00:39:53,790 --> 00:39:52,400
well here let me let me do let me make a

1034
00:39:57,589 --> 00:39:53,800
point argument

1035
00:40:00,390 --> 00:39:57,599
easier to let me do let me make a point

1036
00:40:01,510 --> 00:40:00,400
here rick because you have just kind of

1037
00:40:02,950 --> 00:40:01,520
repeated that thing

1038
00:40:05,030 --> 00:40:02,960
over and over again and what i was going

1039
00:40:08,230 --> 00:40:05,040
to try and do is

1040
00:40:12,230 --> 00:40:08,240
ask you to tell me since

1041
00:40:14,390 --> 00:40:12,240
one i was brought up christian i did

1042
00:40:15,750 --> 00:40:14,400
investigate thoroughly and i probably

1043
00:40:20,470 --> 00:40:15,760
have 50 show

1044
00:40:23,109 --> 00:40:20,480
50 shows 50 interviews with leading

1045
00:40:23,510 --> 00:40:23,119
religious scholars kind of all over the

1046
00:40:26,950 --> 00:40:23,520
map

1047
00:40:29,190 --> 00:40:26,960
both christian and non-christian i i've

1048
00:40:31,750 --> 00:40:29,200
investigated this pretty thoroughly

1049
00:40:33,829 --> 00:40:31,760
i can't think of one of them that would

1050
00:40:37,109 --> 00:40:33,839
react the way that you have

1051
00:40:38,870 --> 00:40:37,119
to smoley's quote here and i certainly

1052
00:40:41,030 --> 00:40:38,880
don't react that way and i don't know

1053
00:40:42,750 --> 00:40:41,040
any other christians that would say that

1054
00:40:45,349 --> 00:40:42,760
he has fundamentally rip

1055
00:40:47,750 --> 00:40:45,359
misrepresented the christian cosmology

1056
00:40:49,430 --> 00:40:47,760
so hold on there's a question here

1057
00:40:51,750 --> 00:40:49,440
and it's the question i keep coming back

1058
00:40:55,270 --> 00:40:51,760
to what part of this

1059
00:40:57,910 --> 00:40:55,280
are you reacting to so strongly to as

1060
00:40:58,630 --> 00:40:57,920
not being part of your understanding of

1061
00:41:01,589 --> 00:40:58,640
the christmas

1062
00:41:04,230 --> 00:41:01,599
christian cosmology without just kind of

1063
00:41:06,390 --> 00:41:04,240
blanketly saying this entire thing

1064
00:41:08,710 --> 00:41:06,400
is constructed and it's there's a strum

1065
00:41:12,230 --> 00:41:08,720
and all this

1066
00:41:15,589 --> 00:41:12,240
the entire segment is nonsense

1067
00:41:19,589 --> 00:41:15,599
it has nothing whatsoever

1068
00:41:20,950 --> 00:41:19,599
to do with the authentic sources

1069
00:41:23,589 --> 00:41:20,960
what is the authentic what is the

1070
00:41:26,870 --> 00:41:23,599
authentic christian cosmology the bible

1071
00:41:28,790 --> 00:41:26,880
and the fathers and the councils

1072
00:41:30,950 --> 00:41:28,800
for the catholic and even for the

1073
00:41:31,910 --> 00:41:30,960
orthodox up to the seventh ecumenical

1074
00:41:34,470 --> 00:41:31,920
council

1075
00:41:35,030 --> 00:41:34,480
that is where you find the authentic

1076
00:41:36,710 --> 00:41:35,040
what is it

1077
00:41:38,309 --> 00:41:36,720
tell us rick tell us what the christian

1078
00:41:40,309 --> 00:41:38,319
cosmology is

1079
00:41:41,349 --> 00:41:40,319
well it differs tell us how it differs

1080
00:41:42,710 --> 00:41:41,359
from smoking

1081
00:41:45,829 --> 00:41:42,720
could we could we could recite the

1082
00:41:47,270 --> 00:41:45,839
nicene creed but it begins very very

1083
00:41:51,589 --> 00:41:47,280
simply

1084
00:41:55,270 --> 00:41:51,599
i believe in god the father almighty

1085
00:41:58,790 --> 00:41:55,280
maker of heaven earth

1086
00:42:01,829 --> 00:41:58,800
that is the fundamental cosmological

1087
00:42:02,710 --> 00:42:01,839
assertion of the christian religion the

1088
00:42:06,069 --> 00:42:02,720
universe

1089
00:42:09,270 --> 00:42:06,079
is not a self-assembling collection

1090
00:42:12,550 --> 00:42:09,280
of subatomic particles that somehow

1091
00:42:17,430 --> 00:42:12,560
emerge from the void and

1092
00:42:20,550 --> 00:42:17,440
voila given 13.8 billion years and a law

1093
00:42:23,030 --> 00:42:20,560
of gravity here we are

1094
00:42:23,829 --> 00:42:23,040
isn't that marvelous now that is

1095
00:42:26,710 --> 00:42:23,839
essentially

1096
00:42:28,550 --> 00:42:26,720
a straw manning of the current

1097
00:42:31,190 --> 00:42:28,560
cosmological picture

1098
00:42:32,230 --> 00:42:31,200
and i don't publish a such a straw man

1099
00:42:34,710 --> 00:42:32,240
because i wouldn't be able to

1100
00:42:37,750 --> 00:42:34,720
intellectually live with myself

1101
00:42:38,309 --> 00:42:37,760
if i straw manned my opposition the way

1102
00:42:41,910 --> 00:42:38,319
that the

1103
00:42:45,030 --> 00:42:41,920
oxford dawn who wrote how god became god

1104
00:42:46,790 --> 00:42:45,040
has strawman the christian message but

1105
00:42:50,069 --> 00:42:46,800
the fundamental difference

1106
00:42:51,030 --> 00:42:50,079
between my cosmology and the cosmology

1107
00:42:55,589 --> 00:42:51,040
of the modern

1108
00:42:56,870 --> 00:42:55,599
scientists is that he insists

1109
00:42:58,550 --> 00:42:56,880
that those we'll talk about that because

1110
00:42:59,670 --> 00:42:58,560
we're going to agree on that what we're

1111
00:43:02,710 --> 00:42:59,680
not going to agree on

1112
00:43:03,829 --> 00:43:02,720
small is just telling us the adam and

1113
00:43:05,750 --> 00:43:03,839
eve story

1114
00:43:07,829 --> 00:43:05,760
and you haven't told us what part of the

1115
00:43:10,870 --> 00:43:07,839
adam and eve story he's telling us his

1116
00:43:16,290 --> 00:43:10,880
story well so tell us tell us what's

1117
00:43:21,910 --> 00:43:19,190
[Music]

1118
00:43:22,870 --> 00:43:21,920
interestingly enough in the book of

1119
00:43:26,150 --> 00:43:22,880
genesis

1120
00:43:29,510 --> 00:43:26,160
in fact in the second chapter

1121
00:43:30,069 --> 00:43:29,520
of the book of genesis now if the author

1122
00:43:33,829 --> 00:43:30,079
of how

1123
00:43:37,190 --> 00:43:33,839
god became god richard smolder

1124
00:43:40,950 --> 00:43:37,200
had any actual interest in

1125
00:43:41,430 --> 00:43:40,960
grappling with that story the adam and

1126
00:43:44,470 --> 00:43:41,440
eve

1127
00:43:46,470 --> 00:43:44,480
story he would have started out with the

1128
00:43:49,990 --> 00:43:46,480
basic intellectual honesty

1129
00:43:52,790 --> 00:43:50,000
of presenting the story as we have it

1130
00:43:53,349 --> 00:43:52,800
in scripture but that wouldn't work at

1131
00:43:56,550 --> 00:43:53,359
all

1132
00:43:57,430 --> 00:43:56,560
he needs to rewrite that story in other

1133
00:44:00,710 --> 00:43:57,440
words

1134
00:44:05,109 --> 00:44:00,720
to straw man that story so that he can

1135
00:44:08,069 --> 00:44:05,119
in the vultarian sense skewer it

1136
00:44:10,069 --> 00:44:08,079
as ridiculous on its face well it is

1137
00:44:10,790 --> 00:44:10,079
ridiculous on its face the way he writes

1138
00:44:35,190 --> 00:44:10,800
it

1139
00:44:38,390 --> 00:44:35,200
jamming down the throat

1140
00:44:40,710 --> 00:44:38,400
all due respect alex you you

1141
00:44:42,230 --> 00:44:40,720
claim to be if you claim to be a student

1142
00:44:45,430 --> 00:44:42,240
this stuff doesn't appear

1143
00:44:48,550 --> 00:44:45,440
anywhere in my film it does not

1144
00:44:52,069 --> 00:44:48,560
you are current here alex you

1145
00:44:55,910 --> 00:44:52,079
are correct it does not appear anywhere

1146
00:44:56,950 --> 00:44:55,920
in your very exit yet 40 minutes of this

1147
00:44:59,589 --> 00:44:56,960
interview

1148
00:45:00,230 --> 00:44:59,599
has been dedicated to something that

1149
00:45:03,990 --> 00:45:00,240
isn't

1150
00:45:07,190 --> 00:45:04,000
even in the film i ask in all honesty

1151
00:45:10,630 --> 00:45:07,200
sir who is jamming what down

1152
00:45:14,230 --> 00:45:10,640
whose throat rick

1153
00:45:16,550 --> 00:45:14,240
in in fairness right we schedule i

1154
00:45:19,430 --> 00:45:16,560
scheduled this interview with you

1155
00:45:20,710 --> 00:45:19,440
because your people sent me a thing and

1156
00:45:23,109 --> 00:45:20,720
your people sent me

1157
00:45:24,309 --> 00:45:23,119
the trailer on the film and the one

1158
00:45:26,950 --> 00:45:24,319
sheet on the film

1159
00:45:27,589 --> 00:45:26,960
and it was about scientism and it was

1160
00:45:30,150 --> 00:45:27,599
about

1161
00:45:31,589 --> 00:45:30,160
uh quantum physics and i immediately

1162
00:45:34,950 --> 00:45:31,599
said this is fantastic

1163
00:45:38,069 --> 00:45:34,960
i'm all in i watched the film

1164
00:45:41,430 --> 00:45:38,079
and i said this is great

1165
00:45:43,829 --> 00:45:41,440
but this christian crap is just

1166
00:45:46,309 --> 00:45:43,839
ridiculous there's no connection to it

1167
00:45:48,630 --> 00:45:46,319
and that overlay completely

1168
00:45:50,230 --> 00:45:48,640
kind of destroys the message of the film

1169
00:45:52,230 --> 00:45:50,240
i immediately emailed you

1170
00:45:54,069 --> 00:45:52,240
and said rick we shouldn't do this

1171
00:45:55,510 --> 00:45:54,079
interview because i don't think it's the

1172
00:45:57,270 --> 00:45:55,520
kind of interview you want to do

1173
00:45:59,270 --> 00:45:57,280
and then you turned around and made the

1174
00:46:01,589 --> 00:45:59,280
entire interview about the very thing

1175
00:46:03,349 --> 00:46:01,599
you said you didn't want to discuss

1176
00:46:04,870 --> 00:46:03,359
no no no you you just see again so

1177
00:46:06,710 --> 00:46:04,880
you're not a good listener rick

1178
00:46:08,470 --> 00:46:06,720
because that's not what i said it's not

1179
00:46:10,710 --> 00:46:08,480
that i said i don't want to discuss it

1180
00:46:12,230 --> 00:46:10,720
i said you don't want to discuss it

1181
00:46:12,790 --> 00:46:12,240
because i don't want to sit there and

1182
00:46:16,230 --> 00:46:12,800
just

1183
00:46:18,470 --> 00:46:16,240
talk about it to discuss it alex i am

1184
00:46:19,510 --> 00:46:18,480
more than happy to discuss it the

1185
00:46:22,230 --> 00:46:19,520
problem is

1186
00:46:23,270 --> 00:46:22,240
as we attempt to discuss it instead of

1187
00:46:26,470 --> 00:46:23,280
engaging

1188
00:46:27,430 --> 00:46:26,480
with the actual content of the catholic

1189
00:46:30,230 --> 00:46:27,440
faith which i'm

1190
00:46:32,630 --> 00:46:30,240
perfectly prepared to defend you instead

1191
00:46:36,069 --> 00:46:32,640
present this ridiculous

1192
00:46:36,390 --> 00:46:36,079
straw man and as if i'm supposed to sit

1193
00:46:38,790 --> 00:46:36,400
here

1194
00:46:44,069 --> 00:46:38,800
weakly and allow you to jam that down my

1195
00:46:51,430 --> 00:46:48,069
that's true anyway look here's the thing

1196
00:46:53,670 --> 00:46:51,440
we incorporated the biographical section

1197
00:46:57,270 --> 00:46:53,680
of the story of warfare

1198
00:47:00,309 --> 00:46:57,280
precisely so that

1199
00:47:01,670 --> 00:47:00,319
the remarkable intellectual journey of

1200
00:47:03,670 --> 00:47:01,680
this man

1201
00:47:04,710 --> 00:47:03,680
can be understood by the audience

1202
00:47:07,589 --> 00:47:04,720
because it is

1203
00:47:09,750 --> 00:47:07,599
an interesting thing it is the exact

1204
00:47:11,829 --> 00:47:09,760
opposite of your journey

1205
00:47:13,829 --> 00:47:11,839
in other words you started out you know

1206
00:47:15,990 --> 00:47:13,839
what my journey is how can you say

1207
00:47:17,589 --> 00:47:16,000
something i know this much i know you

1208
00:47:19,349 --> 00:47:17,599
started out in the greek orthodox church

1209
00:47:20,950 --> 00:47:19,359
and you're not in it anymore okay so

1210
00:47:26,710 --> 00:47:20,960
that's all i need to know

1211
00:47:31,030 --> 00:47:29,750
your story is the exact opposite of

1212
00:47:34,230 --> 00:47:31,040
wolfgang's because he

1213
00:47:37,430 --> 00:47:34,240
started out outside

1214
00:47:41,430 --> 00:47:37,440
the church and pursuing

1215
00:47:44,630 --> 00:47:41,440
physics exclusively as the correct

1216
00:47:46,270 --> 00:47:44,640
way to understand the universe and his

1217
00:47:49,349 --> 00:47:46,280
journey has led him

1218
00:47:51,030 --> 00:47:49,359
precisely back to the place that you

1219
00:47:54,230 --> 00:47:51,040
consider to be so

1220
00:47:55,430 --> 00:47:54,240
ridiculous now that's an interesting

1221
00:47:56,790 --> 00:47:55,440
thing to me

1222
00:47:59,190 --> 00:47:56,800
i certainly if i were making a

1223
00:48:02,030 --> 00:47:59,200
documentary about you

1224
00:48:03,190 --> 00:48:02,040
alex i would incorporate whatever

1225
00:48:06,230 --> 00:48:03,200
biographical

1226
00:48:09,750 --> 00:48:06,240
portions i could find that would explain

1227
00:48:12,790 --> 00:48:09,760
why you have departed from the world

1228
00:48:13,990 --> 00:48:12,800
view of your early years of the brief

1229
00:48:15,589 --> 00:48:14,000
orthodox church

1230
00:48:17,910 --> 00:48:15,599
because it would be important to

1231
00:48:20,150 --> 00:48:17,920
understand how you've arrived

1232
00:48:22,549 --> 00:48:20,160
at the positions you have now that's

1233
00:48:25,349 --> 00:48:22,559
exactly what we do in the welfare

1234
00:48:25,990 --> 00:48:25,359
let me clearly stand behind it 100 you

1235
00:48:27,750 --> 00:48:26,000
you should

1236
00:48:29,109 --> 00:48:27,760
because it's an awesome film and people

1237
00:48:30,630 --> 00:48:29,119
should go and watch it because it's

1238
00:48:33,430 --> 00:48:30,640
incredibly

1239
00:48:35,589 --> 00:48:33,440
wonderfully done in terms of of science

1240
00:48:36,230 --> 00:48:35,599
and let me go one step further because i

1241
00:48:44,790 --> 00:48:36,240
would

1242
00:48:47,349 --> 00:48:44,800
said the the part about his

1243
00:48:48,710 --> 00:48:47,359
conversion back to catholicism doesn't

1244
00:48:49,829 --> 00:48:48,720
interfere with the film at all

1245
00:48:52,309 --> 00:48:49,839
and i don't want to leave people with

1246
00:48:53,829 --> 00:48:52,319
that impression it's not like

1247
00:48:55,589 --> 00:48:53,839
he gets up there and starts reading

1248
00:48:57,510 --> 00:48:55,599
scripture halfway through the film

1249
00:48:59,750 --> 00:48:57,520
or he's proselytizing or he's trying to

1250
00:49:01,829 --> 00:48:59,760
convert there's none of that

1251
00:49:02,870 --> 00:49:01,839
so the discussion we're having here

1252
00:49:04,230 --> 00:49:02,880
really if you

1253
00:49:06,069 --> 00:49:04,240
i can understand why it could be a

1254
00:49:08,390 --> 00:49:06,079
little bit off-putting to you because it

1255
00:49:11,030 --> 00:49:08,400
really is not at all

1256
00:49:11,589 --> 00:49:11,040
a fundamental or even necessary part of

1257
00:49:14,150 --> 00:49:11,599
the film

1258
00:49:15,589 --> 00:49:14,160
it's just the part that interests me

1259
00:49:17,349 --> 00:49:15,599
because i'm so interested in

1260
00:49:19,510 --> 00:49:17,359
consciousness and extending alex you're

1261
00:49:20,549 --> 00:49:19,520
a darn good interviewer and i'll tell

1262
00:49:22,710 --> 00:49:20,559
you why

1263
00:49:23,829 --> 00:49:22,720
because what this is where the rubber

1264
00:49:27,109 --> 00:49:23,839
meets the road

1265
00:49:29,190 --> 00:49:27,119
okay and it's darn

1266
00:49:31,109 --> 00:49:29,200
good that we should cross swords on this

1267
00:49:34,630 --> 00:49:31,119
because you and i do not agree

1268
00:49:37,030 --> 00:49:34,640
and you and wolfgang smith do not agree

1269
00:49:38,150 --> 00:49:37,040
in your assessment of the meaning of the

1270
00:49:41,510 --> 00:49:38,160
christian revelation

1271
00:49:43,270 --> 00:49:41,520
it's perfectly legitimate for you to put

1272
00:49:45,990 --> 00:49:43,280
the heat on for me here

1273
00:49:46,710 --> 00:49:46,000
i don't regret it or i'm not upset about

1274
00:49:50,309 --> 00:49:46,720
it at all

1275
00:49:53,190 --> 00:49:50,319
it makes for fantastic media it's a good

1276
00:49:53,910 --> 00:49:53,200
spark filled conversation don't get me

1277
00:49:57,349 --> 00:49:53,920
wrong

1278
00:50:00,549 --> 00:49:57,359
it's just that i'm gonna defend that

1279
00:50:01,910 --> 00:50:00,559
which i hold to be most important and

1280
00:50:03,270 --> 00:50:01,920
wolfgang will defend

1281
00:50:05,349 --> 00:50:03,280
that what you hold the most important

1282
00:50:07,030 --> 00:50:05,359
just as you will and we're not going to

1283
00:50:09,430 --> 00:50:07,040
agree on this point

1284
00:50:10,870 --> 00:50:09,440
but i very much appreciate the point you

1285
00:50:13,430 --> 00:50:10,880
just made about the film

1286
00:50:14,710 --> 00:50:13,440
if i had turned this into some sort of a

1287
00:50:17,990 --> 00:50:14,720
platform

1288
00:50:19,190 --> 00:50:18,000
for wolfgang smith to proselytize i'd be

1289
00:50:21,430 --> 00:50:19,200
ashamed of myself

1290
00:50:22,309 --> 00:50:21,440
because i'd be falsely advertising what

1291
00:50:24,950 --> 00:50:22,319
fulfillment

1292
00:50:26,790 --> 00:50:24,960
thank you very much for making the point

1293
00:50:29,829 --> 00:50:26,800
that we do not introduce these

1294
00:50:31,750 --> 00:50:29,839
ideas as central to the resolution of

1295
00:50:33,349 --> 00:50:31,760
the quantum enigma

1296
00:50:35,670 --> 00:50:33,359
we introduce these ideas so that we can

1297
00:50:39,349 --> 00:50:35,680
understand wolfgang smith

1298
00:50:42,470 --> 00:50:39,359
and why he has been able to resolve

1299
00:50:46,470 --> 00:50:42,480
this profound problem

1300
00:50:50,790 --> 00:50:48,870
well said i think i might just want to

1301
00:50:53,750 --> 00:50:50,800
kind of leave it there

1302
00:50:54,710 --> 00:50:53,760
again folks our guest has been rick

1303
00:50:57,270 --> 00:50:54,720
delano

1304
00:50:58,790 --> 00:50:57,280
i think you got a good enough view of

1305
00:51:00,230 --> 00:50:58,800
where he's coming from but

1306
00:51:01,829 --> 00:51:00,240
maybe i turned up the heat too much

1307
00:51:05,109 --> 00:51:01,839
because he's fantastic

1308
00:51:08,390 --> 00:51:05,119
in this movie he's extremely well-spoken

1309
00:51:10,230 --> 00:51:08,400
and well-versed on these topics the

1310
00:51:11,510 --> 00:51:10,240
if if anything if there's one thing

1311
00:51:12,390 --> 00:51:11,520
about the movie that i would kind of

1312
00:51:15,589 --> 00:51:12,400
warn you of

1313
00:51:19,270 --> 00:51:15,599
is it's a deep dive into serious

1314
00:51:21,829 --> 00:51:19,280
science so put on your big boy

1315
00:51:22,309 --> 00:51:21,839
boots and buckle up and i think you

1316
00:51:25,990 --> 00:51:22,319
really

1317
00:51:28,069 --> 00:51:26,000
enjoy re-learning about quantum physics

1318
00:51:29,829 --> 00:51:28,079
and our history of it and why it's so

1319
00:51:32,710 --> 00:51:29,839
important to

1320
00:51:34,790 --> 00:51:32,720
kind of dispel the absolute insanity

1321
00:51:37,589 --> 00:51:34,800
that we find ourselves in with

1322
00:51:38,710 --> 00:51:37,599
materialistic science as we know it rick

1323
00:51:41,190 --> 00:51:38,720
tell folks in the

1324
00:51:42,230 --> 00:51:41,200
little bit of time we have left when the

1325
00:51:44,630 --> 00:51:42,240
movie will be out

1326
00:51:45,910 --> 00:51:44,640
and what you're doing in connection with

1327
00:51:47,589 --> 00:51:45,920
it to get people

1328
00:51:49,430 --> 00:51:47,599
interested in it well the movie was

1329
00:51:51,990 --> 00:51:49,440
released theatrically uh

1330
00:51:53,030 --> 00:51:52,000
in january we were rolling along quite

1331
00:51:55,190 --> 00:51:53,040
wonderfully and then

1332
00:51:57,750 --> 00:51:55,200
coveted 19 came along and blew that

1333
00:52:00,309 --> 00:51:57,760
entire business out of existence

1334
00:52:01,270 --> 00:52:00,319
so we have just this past week this past

1335
00:52:04,069 --> 00:52:01,280
wednesday

1336
00:52:04,549 --> 00:52:04,079
released the film digitally it can be

1337
00:52:10,309 --> 00:52:04,559
found

1338
00:52:13,349 --> 00:52:10,319
at www.the end of quantumreality.com

1339
00:52:16,549 --> 00:52:13,359
and i must thank the audience most

1340
00:52:18,870 --> 00:52:16,559
profoundly we're off to an amazing start

1341
00:52:19,670 --> 00:52:18,880
and we hope that the film will prove to

1342
00:52:22,870 --> 00:52:19,680
be

1343
00:52:24,710 --> 00:52:22,880
worthy of serious consideration what's

1344
00:52:28,069 --> 00:52:24,720
next after this rick

1345
00:52:30,150 --> 00:52:28,079
ah that's a great question i always say

1346
00:52:31,990 --> 00:52:30,160
after one of these films i'll never make

1347
00:52:34,470 --> 00:52:32,000
another one because they almost kill

1348
00:52:35,910 --> 00:52:34,480
me but i never thought i'd make this one

1349
00:52:37,990 --> 00:52:35,920
so i don't really know i mean

1350
00:52:39,430 --> 00:52:38,000
what i want to do more than anything

1351
00:52:44,230 --> 00:52:39,440
else now

1352
00:52:47,510 --> 00:52:44,240
is really establish wolfgang's work

1353
00:52:49,829 --> 00:52:47,520
as as strongly as i possibly can in

1354
00:52:52,309 --> 00:52:49,839
in as many areas as i possibly can we

1355
00:52:53,990 --> 00:52:52,319
won't have him with us that much longer

1356
00:52:55,910 --> 00:52:54,000
i hope to have an international

1357
00:52:58,950 --> 00:52:55,920
conference on vertical causation

1358
00:52:59,750 --> 00:52:58,960
in physics next year and we hope to have

1359
00:53:02,710 --> 00:52:59,760
a filos

1360
00:53:04,069 --> 00:53:02,720
sofia initiative special edition of his

1361
00:53:06,710 --> 00:53:04,079
collective works

1362
00:53:08,309 --> 00:53:06,720
ready to go sometime next year too after

1363
00:53:09,030 --> 00:53:08,319
that we'll just have to see if there's

1364
00:53:10,950 --> 00:53:09,040
any

1365
00:53:12,829 --> 00:53:10,960
movies out there that really need to be

1366
00:53:15,430 --> 00:53:12,839
made that nobody else is going to take

1367
00:53:17,750 --> 00:53:15,440
on and finally rick for anyone who might

1368
00:53:19,910 --> 00:53:17,760
be interested in your first movie hit

1369
00:53:22,950 --> 00:53:19,920
which i've just kind of dipped into

1370
00:53:26,069 --> 00:53:22,960
looks extremely interesting

1371
00:53:27,670 --> 00:53:26,079
tell folks quickly about that

1372
00:53:29,510 --> 00:53:27,680
well there's one idea that brings the

1373
00:53:31,549 --> 00:53:29,520
modern world into existence and that is

1374
00:53:34,549 --> 00:53:31,559
what we know today is the copernican

1375
00:53:36,309 --> 00:53:34,559
cosmological principle this is the

1376
00:53:39,349 --> 00:53:36,319
foundational idea that

1377
00:53:41,990 --> 00:53:39,359
brings the modern world into existence

1378
00:53:43,990 --> 00:53:42,000
and it can be stated very easily the

1379
00:53:46,309 --> 00:53:44,000
earth is not in any special

1380
00:53:48,549 --> 00:53:46,319
central or privileged location with

1381
00:53:51,270 --> 00:53:48,559
respect to large-scale structure

1382
00:53:52,390 --> 00:53:51,280
of the cosmos this is the most widely

1383
00:53:54,829 --> 00:53:52,400
believed

1384
00:53:56,069 --> 00:53:54,839
assumption in the history of western

1385
00:53:59,750 --> 00:53:56,079
civilization

1386
00:54:01,990 --> 00:53:59,760
and there are astonishing new

1387
00:54:03,190 --> 00:54:02,000
observations of the cosmos on its very

1388
00:54:05,589 --> 00:54:03,200
large scales

1389
00:54:07,030 --> 00:54:05,599
that call this assumption into very

1390
00:54:08,950 --> 00:54:07,040
serious question

1391
00:54:10,069 --> 00:54:08,960
we made a film about it it's called the

1392
00:54:14,069 --> 00:54:10,079
principal

1393
00:54:17,349 --> 00:54:14,079
and you can access that film at www

1394
00:54:20,870 --> 00:54:17,359
dot the principal movie that's p r i

1395
00:54:24,390 --> 00:54:20,880
n c i p l e not a l

1396
00:54:25,829 --> 00:54:24,400
the principal movie dot rick it's been

1397
00:54:29,190 --> 00:54:25,839
great having you on

1398
00:54:31,030 --> 00:54:29,200
thank you alex i enjoyed it very much

1399
00:54:33,510 --> 00:54:31,040
and uh thank you so much for giving me

1400
00:54:35,750 --> 00:54:33,520
the opportunity to speak with you today

1401
00:54:36,789 --> 00:54:35,760
with your so that'll wrap it up rick

1402
00:54:39,670 --> 00:54:36,799
with your permission

1403
00:54:40,789 --> 00:54:39,680
i will edit slightly some of the

1404
00:54:42,950 --> 00:54:40,799
combative

1405
00:54:44,390 --> 00:54:42,960
stuff does turn people off i want to

1406
00:54:45,750 --> 00:54:44,400
leave that

1407
00:54:47,430 --> 00:54:45,760
i want to leave some of it in here but

1408
00:54:48,870 --> 00:54:47,440
we just kind of we just kind of hashed

1409
00:54:51,190 --> 00:54:48,880
it again and again and that

1410
00:54:53,270 --> 00:54:51,200
gives people away there wasn't a single

1411
00:54:55,910 --> 00:54:53,280
bit of it that i didn't love

1412
00:54:56,390 --> 00:54:55,920
the sparks flying is part of what makes

1413
00:54:59,589 --> 00:54:56,400
this

1414
00:55:02,870 --> 00:54:59,599
cool you're a tough interviewer

1415
00:55:03,510 --> 00:55:02,880
but an honest one and ultimately a fair

1416
00:55:05,670 --> 00:55:03,520
one

1417
00:55:07,829 --> 00:55:05,680
you got no problem for me at all my

1418
00:55:08,150 --> 00:55:07,839
friend okay buddy you take care and

1419
00:55:11,589 --> 00:55:08,160
let's

1420
00:55:13,589 --> 00:55:11,599
you're gonna have another one anytime

1421
00:55:14,309 --> 00:55:13,599
anytime anytime you wanna talk we'll

1422
00:55:17,190 --> 00:55:14,319
talk

1423
00:55:18,870 --> 00:55:17,200
okay take care thanks bye thanks again

1424
00:55:19,670 --> 00:55:18,880
to rick delano for joining me today on

1425
00:55:21,670 --> 00:55:19,680
skeptico

1426
00:55:23,670 --> 00:55:21,680
the one question i guess i'd have to tee

1427
00:55:26,950 --> 00:55:23,680
up from this interview is

1428
00:55:28,309 --> 00:55:26,960
is it fair to use someone's religion in

1429
00:55:31,910 --> 00:55:28,319
particular

1430
00:55:33,829 --> 00:55:31,920
someone's catholic faith as a litmus

1431
00:55:35,109 --> 00:55:33,839
test regarding their ability to talk

1432
00:55:37,349 --> 00:55:35,119
about these deeper science

1433
00:55:38,470 --> 00:55:37,359
questions and extended consciousness

1434
00:55:41,109 --> 00:55:38,480
questions

1435
00:55:42,950 --> 00:55:41,119
is that fair i guess that's the question

1436
00:55:43,349 --> 00:55:42,960
of course i'd love to hear what you

1437
00:55:45,910 --> 00:55:43,359
think

1438
00:55:47,109 --> 00:55:45,920
i really really would i know that this

1439
00:55:48,549 --> 00:55:47,119
is a complicated issue

1440
00:55:50,230 --> 00:55:48,559
i know it can really trigger a lot of

1441
00:55:53,109 --> 00:55:50,240
people and i get that

1442
00:55:55,510 --> 00:55:53,119
but i think we gotta dive in check me

1443
00:55:57,589 --> 00:55:55,520
out over there at the skeptical forum

1444
00:55:59,990 --> 00:55:57,599
or of course just visit the skeptical

1445
00:56:02,150 --> 00:56:00,000
website or send me an email or reach me

1446
00:56:05,030 --> 00:56:02,160
however you would like

1447
00:56:05,430 --> 00:56:05,040
the point is to connect with folks who

1448
00:56:08,150 --> 00:56:05,440
were

1449
00:56:09,430 --> 00:56:08,160
interested in this kind of skeptico

1450
00:56:11,030 --> 00:56:09,440
stuff

1451
00:56:12,950 --> 00:56:11,040
please stay with me i have a bunch of

1452
00:56:14,950 --> 00:56:12,960
great shows coming up and some other

1453
00:56:16,230 --> 00:56:14,960
stuff i'm working on that i'm dying to

1454
00:56:19,150 --> 00:56:16,240
tell you about